Derm vs Radiology vs Dental Specialist

Thursday, July 29th, 2010 @ 12:39 am

I’m not very well informed about radiology and dermatology and was wondering if I could get some help figuring out what I want to do for the rest of my life. As of now Im geared to be a dentist (about to be a junior in college, but will have the prereqs for both done) and taking the DAT soon, but I don’t mind taking the MCAT in a couple weeks. My question to you guys is from the perspective of lifestyle,money making potential, and stability (in certainty of $$$) (not patient interaction or prestige) how do Dermatology, Radiology, and being a dental specialist (perio, ortho, endo etc) compare? How much school do you need for Radio and Derm (4 yrs med residency? fellowship?)

Also how hard is it to match into those fields compared to specializing in dentistry?

Thanks for all the help guys!

Answer:You managed to get 69 posts, seriously:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/search.php

Answer:I’m not very well informed about radiology and dermatology and was wondering if I could get some help figuring out what I want to do for the rest of my life. As of now Im geared to be a dentist (about to be a junior in college, but will have the prereqs for both done) and taking the DAT soon, but I don’t mind taking the MCAT in a couple weeks. My question to you guys is from the perspective of lifestyle,money making potential, and stability (in certainty of $$$) (not patient interaction or prestige) how do Dermatology, Radiology, and being a dental specialist (perio, ortho, endo etc) compare? How much school do you need for Radio and Derm (4 yrs med residency? fellowship?)

Also how hard is it to match into those fields compared to specializing in dentistry?

Thanks for all the help guys!

To be a dermatologist or a radiologist these days you need to be in the top 5% of your med school class and have USMLE scores in the top 5% (just to be competitive for residency match). The reasons why those specialties are so competitive are 1) the lifestyle is sweet and 2) medical students are scared of going into a specialty where they may screw up and cause major injuries.

Answer:Ah, radiology and derm. You’re looking at two of the most competitive specialties, radiology for the $$$, derm for the lifestyle.

Both should be 4 years med school 4 years residency fellowship, but I can’t compare to dentistry, I don’t know much about it.

Answer:So would you say matching into these 2 fields is harder than specializing in dentistry?

Not for an academic stud such as yourself.

Answer:Not for an academic stud such as yourself.
What are you talking about?

Answer:So would you say matching into these 2 fields is harder than specializing in dentistry?

He’s making fun of you. Of course Derm and Rads are way harder to get into than dentistry.

Answer:If you’re looking for lifestyle and financial stability, just go dental.

Yep. The lifestyle specialties in medicine are no guarantee to get into (understatement).

Answer:Lol, and dental specialties are? I’ll yield that the competition isn’t as fierce, but the manual dexterity alone necessary to manage to be in the top 10% of your dental class make it fairly challenging to match ortho or OMFS.

As an aside, are there always so many dental threads in the pre-med forum. WTF is going on?

Do you guys really have exams that test your manual dexterity? That actually sounds pretty cool. Could you expand on that?

Answer:enough with the dental stuff in pre-allo, go post it in the predental forums.

Answer:Do you guys really have exams that test your manual dexterity? That actually sounds pretty cool. Could you expand on that?

I test my manual dexterity all the time.

As an aside, are there always so many dental threads in the pre-med forum. WTF is going on?

Most dental fields can be considered lifestyle fields.

There are easier matching medical lifestyle fields too, psych in particular. EM could be considered a lifestyle field to a degree, except for holidays and nights every now and then.

As an aside, are there always so many dental threads in the pre-med forum. WTF is going on?

"YES WE CAN"
Folks are starting to think if medicine will be worth it.

Answer:Do you guys really have exams that test your manual dexterity? That actually sounds pretty cool. Could you expand on that?

We do, it’s called "All of dentistry."

Waxing crowns for dental anatomy, carving wax blocks, preparing teeth for fillings, crowns, root canals, even deep cleanings all require a high level of manual dexterity, and of course we’re tested on it through the way.

The rough level of expectation is around .1mm precision with preparations based on anatomic landmarks, measuring devices and extent of disease.

Also how hard is it to match into those fields compared to specializing in dentistry?

Thanks for all the help guys!

Derm Im fairly certain has a 3 year residency intern year
Rads I think is 4 year residency intern year
Someone please correct me if im wrong.

I think its pretty safe to say that radiologists make the most denero of all the R.O.A.D. specialties which are all considered lifestyle jobs. High compensation for amount of work.

In all honesty If having a really great lifestyle is very important to you, I think you should just go the dental route. My reasoning from this is that it seems like the general census says, dentistry in general is a more relaxed lifestyle job when compared to medicine. However Rads, derm,anast, are all supposed to offer great life styles, but the competitiveness of getting a residency is very high. I am not doubting your academic ability, however lets face it, your future med school class mates wont be dummies lol.

You dont want to try and aim for some specialty like plastics, and end up getting stuck in general surgery. :rolleyes:
( kidding in someway… not sure what way that is yet)

Answer:In terms of hours worked and lifestyle, dental specialty wins hands down. In terms of pay (hour-for-hour) dental specialty wins. In terms of overall pay (ignoring the sub-40-hour workweek for dental, and 50 hour-work-week for medicine), Dental specialty still could win.

For lifestyle and pay-per-hour, Dental specialty wins.

Theres a breakdown on this site somewhere. Compared hour to hour, general dentists make slightly less than dermatologists, and OMFS, orthodontics and pediatric dentists make more per hour than any other medical specialties.

Also how hard is it to match into those fields compared to specializing in dentistry?

Thanks for all the help guys!
Just do the combined Dermatology/Radiology/Dentistry program at Harvard Med. It’s an awesome program, very selective.

Answer:Do you guys really have exams that test your manual dexterity? That actually sounds pretty cool. Could you expand on that?

You have to carve soap for the DAT, for instance. LSAT has puzzles. Doesn’t that sound like so much fun? Why can’t the MCAT have some fun sections on it?

Answer:You have to carve soap for the DAT

Only if you take the Canadian DAT. In the US we have a perceptual ability test where you have to visually reconstruct patterns, judge the relative size of sets of different angles, etc…

Answer:Theres a breakdown on this site somewhere. Compared hour to hour, general dentists make slightly less than dermatologists, and OMFS, orthodontics and pediatric dentists make more per hour than any other medical specialties.
Thank you for the info, can you link me?

Answer:Only if you take the Canadian DAT. In the US we have a perceptual ability test where you have to visually reconstruct patterns, judge the relative size of sets of different angles, etc…

Ah I see. I don’t know very many pre-dents, so not that well-aware of the different tests. I believe they have the perceptual ability test in the Canadian one as well. But why no soap carving??? It must be so much fun!!

Answer:2008 Physician Compensation Survey, By the American Medical Group Association (AMGA)

Dermatology $344,847
Anesthesiology $352,959
Ophthalmology $305,301
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery $367,532
Otolaryngology $336,149
Plastic & Reconstruction $359,637

Link:
http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

Answer:Easy there on making Dentistry sound like a walk in the park. Dentistry has the most stressful lifestyle according to their second highest suicide rate among jobs in America. "Dentists’ odds of suicide "are 6.64 times greater than the rest of the working age population," writes researcher Steven Stack.

So if you’re really looking for lifestyle, be an engineer and be the best one in your state. Or become a CEO somewhere.

Answer:What’s your rationale for directly relating suicide rate to stress?

Answer:To be a dermatologist or a radiologist these days you need to be in the top 5% of your med school class and have USMLE scores in the top 5% (just to be competitive for residency match). The reasons why those specialties are so competitive are 1) the lifestyle is sweet and 2) medical students are scared of going into a specialty where they may screw up and cause major injuries.

I was wondering, how hard is it to get into a radiation oncology residency? What about getting a hem/onc fellowship?

Answer:What’s your rationale for directly relating suicide rate to stress?

Pure assumption; however, I was a dental assistant for a year and that was very stressful on me, let alone the Dentist. The fact that you are rushing patients in and out and are always behind and the fact that people never brush which is kind’ve depressing. I mean it all takes a toll on you.

Plus as the economy has gotten worse, stress has gone up, road rage has gone up, and suicide rates have gone up. I think there has to be a correlation somewhere. Economically Dentists have taken a hit, but I don’t think they have high suicide rates for financial reasoning, maybe from not being satisfied as being a dentist, being looked down upon by the medical community, and just overall job stress? I really haven’t looked into why they have such high suicide rates, but it’s something to look into before going the dental route.

Answer:Can you please provide systematic evidence that shows that dentist’s have a high suicide rate. I’ve never been able to find anything significant.

Answer:PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE

U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5

U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)

U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)

U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0

U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States–1970, National Center for Health Statistics,

Answer:I really haven’t looked into why they have such high suicide rates, but it’s something to look into before going the dental route.

With your aptitude at equating correlation to causation, I’d suggest looking into periodontics.

Only dental people will understand this joke.

Answer:I think there’s no doubt that there’s a correlation between stress and suicide. I should have specified - it seemed like you were using it to refer to the job as particularly taxing. While it’s by no means an easy job, if taxing alone was the only cause, I’d list numerous jobs that should, in my opinion, have higher suicide rates. If I had to guess what one of the biggest contributing factors is (and this is obviously a guess), I’d say job satisfaction. I don’t have a reference - this is just out of the mouth of my gf’s dad, an LVI dentist - that something like 50 or 60% of dentists were dissatisfied with their careers.

Answer:Here is your answer. MD has higher suicide rate.

PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE

U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5

U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)

U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)

U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0

U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States–1970, National Center for Health Statistics,

I think there’s no doubt that there’s a correlation between stress and suicide. I should have specified - it seemed like you were using it to refer to the job as particularly taxing. While it’s by no means an easy job, if taxing alone was the only cause, I’d list numerous jobs that should, in my opinion, have higher suicide rates. If I had to guess what one of the biggest contributing factors is (and this is obviously a guess), I’d say job satisfaction. I don’t have a reference - this is just out of the mouth of my gf’s dad, an LVI dentist - that something like 50 or 60% of dentists were dissatisfied with their careers.

Answer:The study he cited

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118985602/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 (paid access)

and counter studies

http://www.mndental.org/archive/1_04/features/article_3/

http://jada.ada.org/cgi/content/full/132/6/786

Answer:The following line is taken from your second source:

The research on physician rates of suicide seems more thorough and reliable. It is physicians, not dentists, who have the highest rate of suicide among professionals. They are more than twice as likely as the general population to kill themselves. Psychiatrists commit suicide at the highest rate of all physicians. They account for seven percent of the total physician deaths and 12 percent of the 593 suicides in a study of 18,730 physician deaths. (Suicides by Psychiatrists: A Study of Medical Specialists by Rich et al Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, August 1980).

The study he cited

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118985602/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 (paid access)

and counter studies

http://www.mndental.org/archive/1_04/features/article_3/

http://jada.ada.org/cgi/content/full/132/6/786

Answer:I’m not arguing either side

My only argument was based on the assumption his citation was true.

On a side note, I didn’t need to read that for a second time, my interest being psychiatry and all >.<

Answer:Here is your answer. MD has higher suicide rate.

PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE

U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5

U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)

U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)

U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0

U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States–1970, National Center for Health Statistics,

Wow, I guess I had the misconception that Dentists had higher suicide rates than Doctors. I always that was common knowledge too, I guess I was mistaken. Nonetheless, to refer to it as an easy lifestyle and an easy money job would be a stretch because it still has a higher than average suicide rate and is a very physically and mentally demanding career.

But at the end of the day, you’re still a dentist. :laugh: I kid, I kid.

Answer:PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE

U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5

U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)

U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)

U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0

U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States–1970, National Center for Health Statistics,

This was when doctors were drafted to serve in Vietnam.

Answer:Pure assumption; however, I was a dental assistant for a year and that was very stressful on me, let alone the Dentist. The fact that you are rushing patients in and out and are always behind and the fact that people never brush which is kind’ve depressing. I mean it all takes a toll on you.

Have you ever worked in a medical clinic? It’s fairly similar. You rush patients in and out all day, they don’t take their medications, they don’t eat healthy, they don’t exercise, and you don’t have time to address all of their issues because they simply have too many. In addition, while specialists deal with one system (like dentists), general practitioners have to deal with multiple systems at a time. So I don’t think that that would explain why dentists have a higher suicide rate than physicians (if they do).

Answer:Just do the combined Dermatology/Radiology/Dentistry program at Harvard Med. It’s an awesome program, very selective.

Yeah I’m in that program. It’s very selective. So selective in fact we operate in secrecy.

Don’t bother applying. If we want you we’ll find you. We’ll come get you with an unmarked van in the middle of the night.

Answer:Have you ever worked in a medical clinic? It’s fairly similar. You rush patients in and out all day, they don’t take their medications, they don’t eat healthy, they don’t exercise, and you don’t have time to address all of their issues because they simply have too many. In addition, while specialists deal with one system (like dentists), general practitioners have to deal with multiple systems at a time. So I don’t think that that would explain why dentists have a higher suicide rate than physicians (if they do).

My experience exactly. 55 patients in 3 hours at the derm office I worked at which roughly equates to 1 patient every 3 minutes. It was pathetic. And then I met my oral maxillofacial surgeon who really took the time to explain everything to me in detail and even personally told me the post-op procedures and fully answered all my questions before he sent me to sleep. Thats when I started looking into dentistry and the rest was history.

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Derm vs Radiology vs Dental Specialist

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